The GeoChristian

The Earth. Christianity. They go together.

Days, nights, Jonah, and Jesus

I recently had a GeoChristian reader raise the issue of “Bible inconsistencies and errors” in a comment. Specifically, they brought up the reference in the Gospel of Matthew to “Jesus being in the tomb for ‘three’ nights.” If Jesus was crucified on Friday and resurrected on Sunday, isn’t it an error to say that he was in the tomb for three nights?

My basic approach to “Bible contradictions” can be found in my article Dealing with an apparent Bible contradiction, in which I shared my story of how I had to work through an apparent discrepancy between the accounts of the calling of the disciples in Matthew and John. This caused a brief crisis in my faith, but quickly led to a strengthening of my confidence in the accuracy and reliability of the Scriptures. I am now at a point where, though I cannot give an explanation for every difficult passage in the Bible, I have had enough answers that I no longer struggle just because I don’t understand something.

Let’s take a look at the “contradiction” in question this time. In Matthew 12:39-41, Jesus stated,

“An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will rise up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.” (ESV)

Was Jesus literally in the tomb for “three days and three nights?” The answer seems to be “no.” Christians traditionally hold that Christ was crucified on a Friday afternoon (Good Friday) and rose from the dead early on Sunday (Easter). There was part of one day (Friday afternoon), a night (what we would call Friday night), a full day (Saturday), and part of a night (what we would call Saturday night). Then Jesus rose from the dead. There was only one full day and almost two full nights. It doesn’t matter whether one counts days using the Jewish or Roman systems; it doesn’t add up to a literal “three days and three nights.”

So is this an error in the Bible?

The first part of my answer has to do with the competence of the writer of the first Gospel, traditionally (and justifiably) regarded as the apostle Matthew. Basically, one can only read this passage as a contradiction by assuming that Matthew was somewhat of an idiot. Either he was a competent writer who could follow the relationships between what he wrote in chapter 12, and what he recorded later about Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection (Matthew 26-28); or he was a sloppy writer who couldn’t keep his story straight. Given the quality of the writing in Matthew, one should assume that if there were a contradiction, the author would have caught it. If Matthew and the early Christian writers didn’t see a problem, we should not either.

The second part of my answer has to do with differences in culture and language. Knowing that Matthew was a competent story-teller, one can look for better solutions, rather than concluding that his Gospel contains an error. One scenario that has been suggested is that Jesus was not crucified on Friday, but perhaps on Wednesday. This would account for three full days, but then there would be four nights, so it doesn’t really work. Plus, it doesn’t explain how Friday came to be regarded as “Good.”

A more reasonable answer is that “three days and three nights” was a figure of speech that meant “three days, counting the first and last.” Good Friday was the first of these three days, then came Saturday, and Easter Sunday the third. It is a very plausible solution to the “problem.” We don’t have any first century Aramaic-English phrasebooks laying around, but there is external evidence that the Jews of that time used the phrase “three days and three nights” in this way, so I am quite satisfied with this solution.

If this is correct, it is an example of where we cannot read our culture into someone else’s culture. A modern example of this is how to answer the question, “How old are you?” My answer to the question would be, “I am 52.” But in some eastern Asian countries, a person born on the exact same day as me would truthfully answer, “I am 53.” Why? Because they count the day a person is born as their first birthday, whereas in Western societies we consider a person’s first birthday to be one year after they were born. Different cultures have different ways of counting things. We should not find it surprising that two thousand years ago the Jews used the phrase “three days and three nights” differently than we do.

There are plenty of skeptics who will tell you that the Bible is full of errors and contradictions. For most of these it can fairly easily be shown—as in this case—that it is the skeptics who are in error, not the Scriptures. Even those “contradictions” that are more of a challenge should not cause us to disregard the Bible as God’s Word, as the difficulties are likely due more to our ignorance than anything else.

Grace and Peace


The ESV Study Bible notes for Matthew 12:40 state,

“Three days and three nights in Jewish reckoning is inclusive, meaning no more than three days or the combination of any part of three separate days. Jesus was raise “in three days” although he was buried Friday afternoon and resurrected Sunday morning (i.e., part of Friday is day one, all of Saturday is day two, and part of Sunday is day three).”

John MacArthur writes,

“The matter of three days and three night is often used either to prove Jesus was mistaken about the time He would actually spend in the tomb or that He could not have been crucified on Friday afternoon and raised early on Sunday, the first day of the week. But as in modern usage, the phrase “day and night” can mean not only a full 24-hour day but any representative part of a day. To spend a day, or a day and night, visiting in a neighboring city does not require spending 24 hours there. It could refer to arriving in the late morning and leaving a few hours after dark. In the same way, Jesus’ use of three days and three nights does not have to be interpreted as 72 hours, three full 24-hour days. The Jewish Talmud held that “any part of a day is as the whole.” Jesus was simply using a common, well-understood generalization.” — The MacArthur New Testament Commentary: Matthew 8-15, p. 329.

October 16, 2013 Posted by | Apologetics, Christianity | , , , | 4 Comments

Who created God? An answer from John Lennox

One argument for the existence of God involves the impossibility of an actual infinite past. We cannot trace a pattern of cause and effect back into an eternal past. One difficulty is that we could never have arrived at the present point of time. What created the universe? The big bang. What caused the big bang? A quantum fluctuation in the multiverse (one possible scenario). What caused that multiverse to exist? Some previous multiverse. What caused that previous or broader multiverse to exist? And so on forever.

There are many problems with this naturalistic picture of an infinitely old cosmos. The Christian solution (as well as that of other theists such as Jews and Muslims) is to say that the universe is not eternal; that it was created by something other than the universe, and that is God. But then someone will ask, “Who created God?” This is actually a rather silly question, though some of those who ask the question have taken to calling themselves “Brights.” As Christian apologist William Lane Craig once replied to the “Who created God?” question: “That’s really a meaningless question. It’s like wracking your brain wondering, ‘What is the cause of the First Uncaused Cause?’”

John Lennox, professor of Mathematics at Oxford, gives his answer to this question in his excellent book, God’s Undertaker: Has Science Buried God? Lennox writes:

There is another objection to the existence of God that is related to the preceding one [about God needing to be more complex than the universe]. Much attention has been drawn to it by the fact that Richard Dawkins has made it a central issue in his best-selling book The God Delusion. It is the age-old schoolboy teaser: If we say that God created the universe we shall have to ask who created God and so on, so that, according to Dawkins, the only way out of an impossible infinite regress is to deny that God exists.

Is this really the best that the Brights can do? I can hear an Irish friend saying: ‘Well, it proves one thing — if they had a better argument they would use it.’ If that is thought to be a rather strong reaction, just think of the question: Who made God? The very asking of it shows that the questioner has a created God in mind. It is then scarcely surprising that one calls one’s book The God Delusion. For that is precisely what a created god is, a delusion, virtually by definition — as Xenophanes pointed out centuries before Dawkins. A more informative title might have been: The Created-God Delusion. The book could then have been reduced to a pamphlet — but sales might just have suffered.

Now Dawkins candidly tells us that he does not like people telling him that they also do not believe in the God in which he does not believe. But we cannot afford to base our arguments on his dislikes. For, whether he likes it or not, he openly invites the charge. After all, it is he who is arguing that God is a delusion. In order to weigh his argument we need first of all to know what he means by God. And his main argument is focussed on a created God. Well, several billion of us would share his disbelief in such a god. He needn’t have bothered. Most of us have long since been convinced of what he is trying to tell us. Certainly, no Christian would ever dream of suggesting that God was created. Nor, indeed, would Jews or Muslims. His argument, by his own admission, has nothing to say about an eternal God. It is entirely beside the point. Dawkins should shelve it on the shelf marked ‘Celestial Teapots’ where it belongs.

For the God who created and upholds the universe was not created — he is eternal. He was not ‘made’ and therefore subject to the laws that science discovered; it was he who made the universe with its laws. Indeed, that fact constitutes the fundamental distinction between God and the universe. The universe came to be, God did not.



The William Lane Craig quote is from Reasonable Faith, 3rd edition, p. 193.

The long quote from Lennox is from the 2009 edition of God’s Undertaker, pp. 182-183.

October 10, 2013 Posted by | Apologetics, Atheism, Christianity | , , | 1 Comment

Analyzing an atheist ad campaign

The following item was originally posted in November 2010, and I have added it to my blog recycling program. Because I have new readers of The GeoChristian, I will occasionally go back and re-use some of my favorite blog entries.

Yesterday, I wrote about a new advertising campaign from Answers in Genesis. In this present entry, I’ll take a look again at an advertising campaign sponsored by the American Humanist Association. I have done a little editing to improve the article.

The American Humanist Association is launching an ad campaign [in 2010], urging us all to “Consider Humanism.” I can summarize the logic of their ad campaign with one word: Nonsense!

This campaign uses a familiar atheist technique: Focus on the evils done in the name of religion; ignore the evils done by atheists.

The graphics I’ve seen have this format:

  • What some believe — a verse from the Bible or Koran urging some repugnant thing, such as slaughtering, hating, oppressing, and so forth.
  • What humanists think — a quote from some “enlightened” atheist showing how far we’ve come from the barbaric days of the Bible and Koran.

Note that religious people just “believe” something, whereas humanists/atheists “think.”

I am not a Muslim, obviously, so I’ll leave it to Muslims to defend themselves against the humanists.

There is a good, well-thought-out answer—yes, we Christians know how to think—for each of the accusations that the humanist ad campaign levels against Christianity. Consider the following ad:

This one is rather silly. Does any Christian really think that Jesus, in this passage, was telling us to hate anyone? Jesus was clearly using hyperbole, as we are told over and over to love one another, and even to love our enemies. Jesus wants our love for him to be so great that all other loves—including our love for ourselves—pales in comparison.

I’ll take Katharine Hepburn’s word for it, that she believes (that must have been a typo on the humanists’ part) that we should be kind to one another. I have to wonder, however, whether that belief comes from the Anglo-Saxon side of her cultural heritage, or from the Christian side.

Here’s another:

The Bible paints things as they really are. The people of Samaria (the northern ten tribes of Israel) had adopted a religious system from the surrounding nations—including worship of Baal and Molech— that included ritual prostitution (probably involuntary for many of the prostitutes), human sacrifice, mutilation, and incest. The humanists seem to think that God was being rather harsh in sending judgment on all of this, but most of us can discern that something is horribly wrong in a religious system that encourages ritual sacrifice of children.

Albert Einstein may have been guilty of exactly what he said he opposed. He could not imagine a God who punishes, saying this is “but a reflection of human frailty.” But then isn’t the God whom he could imagine one modeled after Einstein’s own thoughts in some way?

It wouldn’t be fair for me to pick out the easiest ads—and I think the first two I mentioned were incredibly easy to answer—so I’ll go for what I think is the most difficult:

I’ll start with the atheist/humanist solution that is proposed, and then get to a Christian response.

First, I applaud those who work towards peace, whether they be humanist, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, or Christian. I am not opposed to international efforts to prevent genocide.

Having said this, I wouldn’t trust atheists (whether they call themselves “atheists” or “humanists”) to run an international organization that would “adjudicate and enforce measures to punish acts of genocide.” The atheist track record in the past century is one of massive genocide (Stalin, Mao, etc.), and it would be easy for them (or any other group) to start favoring one side over the other in a conflict. Human nature has embedded within it characteristics such as greed, fear, and aggression, and too much power in the hands of one group always ends up in disaster. Christianity recognizes this. Most humanists, on the other hand, put too much trust in the ever-elusive perfectibility of the human species.

Genocide is quite simply wrong. I can say that as a Christian who believes in objective morality. I believe that the atheists/humanists ultimately have no absolute reason for saying it is wrong—right and wrong are at best social constructions to them—but I take them at their word that they really do believe for some reason that genocide is wrong.

Genocide certainly goes against all of the ethical teachings in the New Testament, and most of the ethical teachings of the Old Testament. But what about instances in the Old Testament where God told his people to fight wars, and to wipe out every man, woman, and child? This is a legitimate issue to raise, as mass extermination of humans—the holocaust, and the genocides in Cambodia, Rwanda, and Bosnia—is a great evil.  From a Christian perspective, it is good to keep the following in mind:

  1. God is the maker and ruler of all. He has the absolute right of ownership over all peoples. If he judges an individual or a whole tribe before the final judgement, he is within his rights to do so.
  2. The Canaanites were exceedingly wicked: human sacrifice and so forth. God could have judged them by sending a plague or famine, but in this case he used an army.
  3. All are sinners and deserving of God’s judgment. This goes for everyone from Adolf Hitler to Mother Theresa. The judgment on the Canaanites is therefore a brief picture of what all sinners deserve.
  4. The commands given in the Old Testament for military campaigns were extremely limited in their scope. These commands were for the conquest of Canaan, and not given as a general command for how Israel should interact with its neighbors.
  5. God is just. The same severe penalty given to the Canaanites (destruction) was later mandated for Israelites who followed false Gods (see what I wrote about the judgment on the Israelites in Samaria up above).
  6. Grace was shown to repentant Canaanites, such as Rahab and her family.
  7. We now advance the Kingdom of God through acts of love and proclamation of Christ.

This is an answer that I find satisfactory. Genocide is evil, and there is nothing in the Bible to justify it or even to suggest that it is an acceptable action for us to engage in.

If you are a Christian, do not be duped by the “logic” and “reason” of the atheists in their ad campaign. Their arguments are not as reasonable and logical as they make them out to be.

If you are a humanist/atheist, I urge you to consider Christianity as a better explanation for the world and human nature, including morality and ethics. This ad campaign by the American Humanist Association was downright silly, and demonstrated that their rejection of Christianity has an irrational side to it.  Christianity, in contrast to atheism, offers a solid foundation for both reason and morality.

Grace and Peace

October 8, 2013 Posted by | Apologetics, Atheism, Blog Recycling, Christianity, Ethics | | Leave a comment

Thankful to God that the atheists are wrong

Answers in Genesis has some new billboards that I actually like, highlighted on today’s Around the World With Ken Ham blog. Here’s one of them:


As I recently reminded one reader here on The GeoChristian, I am on the same side as the young-Earth creationists. We may differ on a secondary issue—the age of the Earth—but my goal is the same as theirs: to point people to Jesus Christ, the creator of the universe; the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

I have many reasons to be thankful that the atheists are wrong. Here are a few:

  • I can actually know the God of the universe through knowing his son Jesus Christ as revealed by God in the Scriptures.
  • I can read about mass murderers, human traffickers, drug dealers, and child abusers, and objectively say “these things are evil.” Atheists also view these things as evil, but don’t have a strong foundation for doing so.
  • There is such a thing as a Final Judgement. In the end, all wrongs will be dealt with, and every teardrop will be wiped away from the eyes of God’s people.
  • Good works matter. It really does matter if I give a cup of cold water to the thirsty, or sponsor a child in Africa.
  • Matter matters. God created the universe and proclaimed it to be good. It really does matter what we do with the physical world. It is not just stuff be used for our own purposes, but it all belongs to God.
  • Beauty matters. Art, music, drama, and other expressions of human creativity are not just evolutionary anomalies, but point to God who created humans in his image.
  • The future of God’s people is bright and full of promise. To an atheist, the ultimate future of humanity as a whole is death.
  • Human beings have inherent value and dignity, because they are created in the image of God.
  • Humans also have purpose. Purpose does not have to be constructed or invented, as in Sartre’s depressing work Being and Nothingness. That purpose is to love God and love people.
  • My individuality matters. I am not just a cog in the wheel, but make a unique contribution to my part of the world.
  • For those in Christ, the end of this life is not the end, but the beginning of real life.
  • That new life—which we have a taste of now—will be free of all the hurt and ugliness that mar this world.
  • In the resurrection, we won’t be floating around in “heaven” with harps (that is not a Biblical picture of “eternal life”), but we will be walking around in resurrected bodies on a renewed Earth. That is going to be awesome.
  • For believers, death is only a temporary separation. I am going to see my Dad again!
  • There will be no more pain or sickness.

Grace and Peace


October 7, 2013 Posted by | Atheism, Young-Earth creationism | , , | 12 Comments

Around the web 10/4/2013 — Super-duper fast volcanoes, dashing dinos, pornography, powerful forgiveness, and more

KEN HAM, PROFESSING CHRISTIAN? – To Answers in Genesis president Ken Ham, any Christian who disagrees with young-Earth creationism is a compromiser who undermines the authority of the Bible. In a recent blog post—Never-ending List of Christians Who Compromise—Ham wrote about a Christian biology professor who is an advocate for theistic evolution, referring to him as “Dr. Jeffrey Schloss, a professing Christian.” I know from previous experience that many young-Earth creationists would blow their tops if I started referring to YEC leaders such as Ham as “professing Christians.” But for some reason Ken Ham gets off the hook.

GIANT VOLCANOES BUILT SUPER-DUPER FAST – Tas Walker’s BiblicalGeology blog has an article on a recently described Large Igneous Province (LIP) in the northwestern Pacific Ocean, known as the Tamu Massif. Walker’s article is The Tamu Massif, the largest single volcano on earth, erupted during Noah’s Flood. One problem with Walker’s proposal is that LIPs tend to be complex features that defy explanation in terms of the single-emplacement models that are required in the very short time frame of the YECs.  This ties into one of the basic problems with YEC flood geology: too many events, too little time. Near the end of the article, Walker writes, “If these scientists who are so puzzled would read their Bibles and take what they read seriously it would all make sense.” I take my Bible seriously, and I am confident that it does not say anything about Cretaceous volcanism. Like most YECs, Walker is reading a lot of stuff into both the Bible and Earth history that simply is not there.

RUN DINO RUN — Walker also writes about dinosaur footprints in Alaska: Dinosaurs caught fleeing rising waters of Noah’s Flood along the Yukon River, Alaska. “Footprints like this are classic evidence for the Inundatory stage of Noah’s Flood, in particular the period as the waters were approaching their peak.” So, even though many areas where dinosaur footprints are found are underlain by many hundreds of meters of earlier sedimentary rocks that cover tens or hundreds of thousands of square kilometers, the YECs want us to believe that dinosaurs somehow survived in some refuge and then had the energy to go on long walks more than half way through the flood? Fortunately, the Bible does not require me to believe such stuff. I’ve written about dinosaur footprints before: Dinosaur footprints part 4.

SEASONED WITH SALT — Speaking of Tas, I have now had some correspondence with Tas and Stef Heerema, author of the article I critiqued earlier this year on salt magmas. They have been very cordial, but haven’t presented anything that will make me revise anything I wrote.

YECS WILL NEED MORE INVERTED REASONING FOR THIS ONE — Naturalis Historia presents an excellent three-part series on inverted valleys in Utah. An example of an inverted valley is when a lava flow fills a river valley, and then because the volcanic rocks are more resistant to erosion than the surrounding sediments, the sinuous lava flow that was once in a valley becomes a ridge. In the third part in the series, there is a list of all the events that would have to happen in a very short period of time if YEC were true. Once again, too many events, too little time. See The Exhumed Paleochannels of Utah and MarsAncient Lava Flows and Inverted Valleys in Utah, and Inverted Valleys – A Question of Age.

HAVING ISSUES WITH ISSUES ETC. — I think Issues Etc. is one of the two best programs on Christian radio (the other being White Horse Inn). When I lived in St. Louis I regularly listened to Pastor Todd Wilken on IE during my afternoon commute home, and I miss that. But… every once in a while Wilken would get on the topic of the age of the Earth, and there is only One True Interpretation of Genesis in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, and that is young-Earth creationism. J.W. Wartick has written a nice response to Wilken: Responding to “Nine Questions for the Old Earth Creationist”.

THE CONSEQUENCES OF OUR PORNO CULTURE – There is a growing understanding among secular people that pornography is a great threat to our children. As an example, read through the disturbing article by Martin Daubney, former editor of a semi-porn “mens” magazine in Britain: Experiment that convinced me online porn is the most pernicious threat facing children today. Someday I’ll incorporate this into the “sexual argument for the existence of God.”

FORGIVENESS AS A CHRISTIAN WITNESS – I read three powerful stories this week that testify about the power of forgiveness in Christ:

Grace and Peace

October 4, 2013 Posted by | Around the Web | 10 Comments

Many top advocates of Biblical authority accept an old Earth as completely compatible with Scripture

Can one believe in the authority of the Bible and also believe that Earth is on the order of a few billion years old?

Are Christians who accept an old Earth “compromisers” who deny obvious truths of Scripture?

Many young-Earth creationist (YEC) leaders insist that acceptance of an old age for the Earth—billions of years rather about six thousand years—is a direct assault on the authority of the Bible. To them, the Bible clearly teaches about Earth history, and any attempt to find room for “deep time” is conformity to the philosophies of the ungodly world. In the words of Answers in Genesis president Ken Ham:

The old earth is such a key issue today in fighting for the full accuracy and authority of the Bible. AiG does not only present the arguments against evolution. You see, it is just as important to offer arguments against an old age for the earth and universe. When it comes to biblical authority, the question of the age of the earth is just as vital as the question of whether evolution is true or not. The chronologies in the Bible and the length of the days of the Creation Week (they were 24 hours each) show that the earth is young. Why try to reinterpret the very clear teaching of Scripture to accommodate the fallible ideas of man that say the earth is old? Such reinterpretations undermine the authority of the Word of God.

Of course, I view this as nonsense. There have been a great number of prominent Evangelical theologians and Biblical scholars in the past two hundred years who have accepted an ancient Earth. They have done so because they view acceptance of an old Earth as compatible with the Bible. One can certainly make a strong case for Biblical ambiguity on the age of the Earth from the Scriptures alone, without any reference to scientific discoveries.

But you don’t need to take my word for it. The Gospel Coalition Blog recently posted an article by Michael J. Kruger on the Top 10 Books on the Bible’s Authority. The writers at The Gospel Coalition are all theologically conservative, holding to a high view of Biblical authority. As I looked through the list of books and authors, I wondered how many of these ardent defenders of Scripture were old-Earthers. Here are Kruger’s top ten books, with what I could find on the internet about the authors’ viewpoints regarding the age of the Earth:

10. Scripture and Truth, edited by D.A. Carson and John Woodbridge

D.A. Carson, professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, accepts an old Earth as compatible with Scripture. Here are a couple quotes from his book The God Who is There:

“There is more ambiguity in the interpretation of these chapters than some Christians recognize.”

“I hold that the Genesis account is a mixed genre that feels like history and really does give us some historical particulars. At the same time, however, it is full of demonstrable symbolism. Sorting out what is symbolic and what is not is very difficult.”

I could not find anything about John Woodbridge’s position on the age of the Earth.

9. Reformed Dogmatics: Prolegomena, by Herman Bavinck

Bavinck was an influential Dutch Reformed theologian in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I am having difficulty finding a definitive statement from Bavinck on the age of the Earth. He certainly was not a strict literalist in regards to the six days of creation, and his teachings laid a foundation for both the framework and analogical days interpretations, which both allow for an old Earth. To Bavinck, the Bible did not firmly dictate the age of the Earth, though it could be a stretch to place him in the old-Earth category. But it would also be a stretch to place him firmly in with the YECs.

8. Thy Word is Truth, by E.J. Young

Edward J. Young was professor of Old Testament at Westminster Theological Seminary, and was an advocate of the day-age interpretation of Genesis 1.

7. The Infallible Word: A Symposium by the Members of the Faculty of Westminster Theological Seminary, edited by Ned Stonehouse and Paul Woolley

This book was first published in 1946. I could not find information on how Stonehouse and Woolley interpreted Genesis in terms of the age of the Earth, but the list of contributing authors to this volume appears to include both young-Earthers and old-Earthers.

6. Fundamentalism and the Word of God,  by J.I. Packer

Packer is a professor of theology at Regent College in British Columbia, and one of the most influential Evangelicals in North America. He clearly accepts an old age for the Earth, and appears to see no Biblical problem with acceptance of biological evolution. He wrote a strong endorsement of Denis Alexander’s book Creation or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose?

5. Disputations on Holy Scripture, by William Whitaker

Whitaker lived in the 1500s, so I must assume he was a YEC.

4. The Divine Original: Authority, Self-Evidencing Light, and Power of the Scriptures, by John Owen

Owen was a Puritan theologian in the 1600s, and so also almost certainly was a YEC.

3. The Structure of Biblical Authority, by Meredith Kline

Kline is one of the preeminent proponents of the framework interpretation of Genesis 1, so is clearly an old-Earther.

2. The Doctrine of the Word of God, by John Frame

It was difficult to find much about Frame’s views on the age of the Earth on the internet. One book review (for another book: The Doctrine of God) stated that Frame believes that the six days of creation were not literal, so it seems that Frame is open to an old Earth. [Update -- Frame holds more closely to the seven 24-hour day view, but considers other interpretations to be within the realm of orthodoxy. See comment #1]

1. The Inspiration and Authority of the Bible, by B.B. Warfield

Warfield, one of the writers for The Fundamentals collections of essays that launched American fundamentalism a century ago, accepted an old Earth and biological evolution as God’s means of creation. In regards to the age of the Earth. Warfield wrote:

In a word, the Scriptural data leave us wholly without guidance in estimating the time which elapsed between the creation of the world and the deluge and between the deluge and the call of Abraham. So far as the Scripture assertions are concerned, we may suppose any length of time to have intervened between these events which may otherwise appear reasonable. The question of the antiquity of man is accordingly a purely scientific one, in which the theologian as such has no concern.


Of the authors and editors represented in The Gospel Coalition’s list of ten best books on the authority of Scripture, a majority are either advocates for or open to an old age for the universe.

Old Earth Young Earth I don’t know
D.A. Carson  William Whitaker  John Woodbridge
E.J. Young  John Owen  Herman Bavinck
J.I. Packer  John Frame (see update note below)  Ned Stonehouse
Meredith Kline  Paul Wooley
B.B. Warfield

[Update -- I have moved Frame from the old earth column (where I had him listed with a question mark) to the young earth column. Frame doesn't consider  the age of the earth to be a test of orthodoxy. See comment #1]

Note that the only two clearly young-Earth advocates in the list wrote in the 16th and 17th centuries. It is not that I am dismissing their writings as primitive, but pointing out that they gave no more critical thought to the Biblical teaching about the age of the Earth than they did to the Copernican controversy (Owen defended geocentrism—the idea that the Earth was the center of the universe).

The only way YEC leaders can cling to their my-way-or-the-highway view of Biblical authority is to label all of these Bible-believing old-Earth scholars as “compromisers.”  I think, however, if The Gospel Coalition’s list of “top ten books on Biblical authority” contains a number of books by scholars who believe an old Earth is compatible with Scripture, then it is clear that belief in a young Earth is a secondary issue in regards to acceptance of the truthfulness and authority of the Bible.

This is important for two reasons:

  1. The YEC insistence that old-Earth scholars are compromisers who undermine Biblical authority is divisive. The followers of organizations such as Answers in Genesis are influenced to view old-Earthers as somehow secondary Christians at best, and perhaps not real Christians at all.
  2. The YEC insistence that the only valid way to interpret Genesis is that Earth is only 6,000 years old drives people away from Christianity. Either non-Christians don’t consider Christianity as a reasonable option, or Christians who figure out that YEC doesn’t work scientifically leave the faith. It would be far better for YECs to say, “We believe the Bible teaches a young Earth, but there are other Christians who also believe the Bible who believe it doesn’t require a young Earth.” We should let secondary issues remain as secondary issues.

Grace and Peace

I prefer to say that we can make a biblical case for ambiguity about the age of the Earth rather than a biblical case for an old Earth. As an old-Earth Christian, I don’t have to demonstrate that the Bible requires an old Earth—that would be an impossible task because the Bible does not require an old Earth—but only that it does not require any particular age for the Earth.

The Ken Ham quote is from A Walking Witness and a Whale Story, on his Around the World With Ken Ham blog, August 7, 2013.

The quotes from D.A. Carson’s book The God Who is There are from the Internet Monk blog: D.A. Carson on Genesis 1-2 and Science.

According to the Presbyterian Church of America’s Report of the Creation Study Committee, “Kuyper and Bavinck in the Netherlands did not hold to the Calendar Day view, but are difficult to categorize in our terms.”   I got additional information about Bavinck from Herman Bavinck on Creation on Exiled Preacher blog.

That Young held to the day-age interpretation is also documented in the PCA Report of the Creation Study Committee.

The statement that Frame views the days of Genesis 1 non-literally is from a book review of The Doctrine of God.

I briefly wrote about Warfield a couple years ago: Fundamentalism and creationism. The Warfield quote is from Reasons to Believe’s page Notable Christians Open to an Old-universe, Old-earth Perspective.

P.S. Michael Kruger had included some “honorable mentions” when he submitted his article to The Gospel Coalition, but they were cut. Here is his extended list of books:

Author Book Old/Young Earth
Herman Ridderbos  Redemptive History and the New Testament Scriptures Old Earth — Framework interpretation (see Mortenson and Ury, eds., Coming to Grips With Genesis, p. 212)
Cornelius van Til  The Doctrine of Scripture Open to old Earth (?) – states that van Til “felt that the age of the earth was debatable.”
J.W. Montgomery, ed.  God’s Inerrant Word Open to old Earth (?) — I assumed Montgomery was a YEC, but he seems to be open to an old Earth. He wrote an endorsement for Dembski’s End of Christianity, and his 1970s book The Quest for Noah’s Ark (which I read in about 1976) advocated a local flood. Several of the contributing authors to God’s Inerrant Word are old-Earthers.
Carl F.H. Henry  God, Revelation, and Authority Old Earth – “The Bible does not require belief in six literal 24-hour creation days on the basis of Genesis 1-2.” (page 6226, from
R.L. Harris  Inspiration and Canonicity of the Bible Old Earth — Listed as an old-Earther in Mortenson and Ury, Coming to Grips With Genesis, p. 332.
J.W. Wenham Christ and the Bible Old Earth (?) — On page 13 of Christ and the Bible, Wenham states that “The references to the ordinance of monogamy ‘from the beginning of creation’, for instance, do not seem to necessitate a literal interpretation of chapters 1 and 2 of Genesis for their validity.”
N. Geisler, ed. Inerrancy  Old Earth
Greg Beale The Erosion of Inerrancy in Evangelicalism  Old Earth — See summaries of what Beale has to say about Genesis at Greg Beale On Biblical Cosmology, Part 1 and Part 2.
Paul Wells Taking the Bible at Its Word  I don’t know.

See Kruger’s extended list at Top Ten Books on the Authority of Scripture (and Honorable Mentions).

The “honorable mentions” list adds six names to the “old Earth” list, two names to the “open to old Earth (?)” list, one name to the “I don’t know” list, and zero names to the “young Earth” list.

I would have been very happy with 50% of Kruger’s authors being old-Earthers. But as far as I could determine, not a single one of his favorite authors on the topic of Biblical authority after the 17th century is a firm advocate of the “literal” young-Earth interpretation!

YECs will argue that Kruger might have left out some important YEC contributions, such as Coming to Grips with Genesis (subtitled “Biblical authority and the age of the Earth”), edited by Mortenson and Ury. But even if he had added some YEC works, it is crystal clear that there are a number of prominent Evangelical scholars who hold firmly to the authority of the Bible, and yet accept that the Bible does not require a 6,000-year old planet.

October 3, 2013 Posted by | Age of the Earth, Creation in the Bible, Old-Earth creationism, Origins, Young-Earth creationism | , , | 5 Comments

Around the web 9/14/2013

LETS MAKE A DEAL? – A lot of atheists like of Richard Dawkins; many others find him to be an embarrassment (here and here). A lot of Christians like ____________; many others find him to be an embarrassment. Rachel Held Evans suggests that both Christians and atheists stop using silly statements from the other side as representative of that side:

As tempting as it is to classify Dawkins’ views as representative of all atheists, I can’t bring myself to do it. I can’t bring myself to do it because I know just how frustrating and unfair it is when atheists point to the most extreme, vitriolic voices within Christianity and proclaim that they are representative of the whole. So, atheists, I say we make a deal: How about we Christians agree not to throw this latest Richard Dawkins thing in your face and you atheists agree not to throw the next Pat Robertson thing in ours?

I want (and often achieve) respectful dialog with atheists. The problem is that there are plenty of atheists out there who listen to Richard Dawkins (and end up sounding like comment #8 in my post on the cosmological argument) , just as there are plenty of Christians out there who listen to silly, unbiblical statements from ____________.

A better solution would be to continue to critique the belligerent and often middle-schoolish arguments of some of the “new atheists” but to not lump all atheists in with them.

FORGIVENESS FOR ATHEISTS? — Pope Francis also wants respectful dialog with atheists: Pope Francis tells atheists to ‘obey their conscience.’  What’s missing from the Pope’s statement on forgiveness for atheists? Jesus. That is why I’m a Protestant.

VOYAGER 1 OUT OF SOLAR SYSTEM? – I guess it is hard to say what really defines the edge of the solar system, but NASA scientists think Voyager 1 has finally crossed the line (CNN — Voyager 1 becomes first human-made object to leave solar system). It is past the Kuiper belt (sort of a second asteroid belt out past Neptune), but nowhere near being past the hypothetical Oort cloud.

One of the most amazing things is that we can detect signals from the Voyager probes as they approach 20 billion kilometers away from Earth. Here’s the description of the signal from the NASA/JPL Voyager page:

The sensitivity of our deep-space tracking antennas located around the world is truly amazing. The antennas must capture Voyager information from a signal so weak that the power striking the antenna is only 10 exponent -16 watts (1 part in 10 quadrillion). A modern-day electronic digital watch operates at a power level 20 billion times greater than this feeble level.

GEO WRESTLING – I missed this when it was posted, but better late than never. J.W. Wartick summarizes a debate between Gregg Davidson (old-Earth Christian geologist) and Andrew Snelling (YEC geologist for Answers in Genesis) — Gregg Davidson vs. Andrew Snelling on the Age of the Earth. The debate occurred at the November 2012 meeting of the Evangelical Philosophical Society.

Snelling is probably the world’s leading YEC geologist, and is better at his geology than most YECs, but he is still trying to fit the square peg of YEC flood geology into the round hole of geological reality. I discussed his arguments for flood geology a few years ago: Six bad arguments from Answers in Genesis.

DID THE ASTRO-FROG CROAK? — Probably. CNN’s report on Rocket frog takes a flying leap tells the story.

STEALTHY SKYSCRAPER? — Is building an invisible skyscraper near a busy international airport really a good idea? Read about it at World’s first ‘invisible’ tower.

Grace and Peace

September 14, 2013 Posted by | Around the Web | 6 Comments

GeoScriptures — Genesis 2:2-3 — God’s rest and the age of the Earth

And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation. — Genesis 2:2-3 (ESV)

How should we understand the six days of creation in Genesis 1:1-2:3? Some insist that the only way to interpret the passage is what is called the “calendar day” view, in which God created the entire universe in six literal, consecutive days roughly 6,000 years ago. Others hold that the days can be understood in some other way, either as indefinite periods of time—the “day-age interpretation”—or as literary devices which are not meant to be taken literally, as in the “framework interpretation.”

In order to evaluate these interpretations, one must take a close look at what the passage actually says. Take, for example, the seventh day, in which God rested from his work of creation. People rest because they get tired. God, on the other hand, rested on the seventh day because he was done. I get worn out on a long hike in the mountains. God was able to create the entire universe without the slightest diminishment of his strength. As the prophet Isaiah wrote to God’s weary people:

Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The Lord is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth.
He will not grow tired or weary,
and his understanding no one can fathom.
Isaiah 40:28 (NIV)

It is clear that God’s rest on Day 7 was not like our rest. It was similar to our rest—such as Sabbath rest or nightly rest—in that God ceased from his work. But it was different from our rest in that there was no reason whatsoever why God needed to stop, other than the fact that he had accomplished what he set out to do. We humans get to the point where we must rest, even though our work is not yet complete. God’s rest, then, is similar (or analogous) to our rest, but not identical.

There are at least three of these analogies in the opening passage of Genesis:

  • God’s rest is similar to, but not identical to, our rest.
  • God’s work is similar to, but not identical to, our work.
  • God’s speech is similar to, but not identical to, our speech.

This insight leads to what is called the “analogical days” interpretation of Genesis 1. Just as God’s rest is not the same as our rest, God’s work is not the same as our work, and God’s speech is not the same as our speech, it is quite reasonable to consider that perhaps

  • God’s day is similar to, but not identical to, our day.

More could be said in support of the analogical days interpretation, but for now I have simply presented the basics of this position. Please note that this is not “reading science into the Bible.” I have simply looked closely at the passage and observed that it is possible that God’s day might not be the same as an Earth day.

Grace and Peace


It is not just Christian young-Earth creationists (YECs) who insist that the only way to interpret Genesis is “6000-year old Earth.” Atheists and skeptics usually agree with the YECs on this one. Unfortunately, the bad apologetics of young-Earth creationism makes it easier for these skeptics to reject Christianity.

A good summary of various interpretations of Genesis can be found in the Report of the Creation Study Committee of the Presbyterian Church in America, a denomination which holds firmly to the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy.

An important advocate of the analogical days interpretation is C. John Collins of Covenant Theological Seminary. His books include Genesis 1-4: A Linguistic, Literary, and Theological Commentary.

The analogical days interpretation is age-neutral. The Earth could be 6000 years old, it could be billions of years old. In this viewpoint, Genesis simply is not about the age of the Earth.

The analogical days interpretation is also not necessarily “competition” for the other interpretations I mentioned. For example, I think the analogical interpretation flows nicely out of the text of Genesis, while the day-age interpretation does not. That does not mean that the day-age interpretation is incorrect; it just may be that the analogical days interpretation gives a solid biblical foundation which is complementary to the scientific insights of the day-age interpretation.

September 13, 2013 Posted by | Creation in the Bible, GeoScriptures, Old-Earth creationism | | 1 Comment

Around the web 8/31/2013 — Fire-breathing dragons, Dawkins causes skeptics to consider Christianity, and more

READING DAWKINS LEADS THINKERS TO CHRIST – Jay Wile tells of two people who came to faith in Christ through reading the The God Delusion and other works by the New Atheists: Richard Dawkins Produces Another Theist. The woman Wile highlights in his article is a great-great-great-granddaughter of Charles Darwin.

FIRE BREATHING DRAGONS PROVE THE BIBLE IS TRUE? –  Naturalis Historia examines the YEC claim that dragons are not the mythological creatures we thought they were, but were really dinosaurs who survived for a while after Noah’s flood: Dinosaurs, Dragons and Ken Ham: The Literal Reality of Mythological Creatures.

Fortunately, most biblical scholars don’t buy into the YEC “dinosaurs in the Bible” argument  (see my blog post The ESV Study Bible on creation — Dinosaurs in Job?).

A FLOOD OF DEBT — According to The Huffington Post, the Christian school in South Carolina that made the news for its dinosaur quiz is going out of business for financial reasons. I wrote about the dinosaur quiz several times in the past few months: A 4th grade quiz on dinosaurs that the teacher would have given me an “F” onMore on the Answers in Genesis 4th grade dinosaur quiz, and Dinosaur quiz — part 3.

GEOLOGICAL BULLOld Earth Ministries got this comment from a young-Earth Creationist who stumbled across their site:

“I have never in my life read such foul lying trash than the trash I read on your website. I will simply say this. I pray to Jesus that you will see the light and stop trying to prove Darwin right. Darwin set out to try to prove that God did not exist and you have been tainted by it and the colleges you all have attended and you choose their words over the words of God. All that geological bull is Satan’s way of turning you from the truth. May God have mercy on your soul.” [emphasis added]

I’ve had a few emails and comments like that over the years as well. Sigh.

Grace and Peace


August 31, 2013 Posted by | Around the Web | Leave a comment

It is more reasonable to believe that God exists than to believe that he does not

Skeptics and atheists like to present their side as that of reason, and the religious side as that of faith. But it just isn’t so. It is, in fact, quite reasonable to believe that there is a God who is is spaceless, timeless, immaterial, uncaused, and incredibly powerful.

One of the most convincing arguments for the existence of God is the cosmological argument. One form of this argument goes like this:

1. Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

This “Kalam” cosmological argument is summarized in a video from Reasonable Faith:

Being that the conclusion (#3) follows logically from the premises (#1 and #2), skeptics try to show that either of the two premises are invalid. In other words, they attempt to demonstrate that something can begin to exist without being caused to exist by something else, or that the universe did not begin to exist; that it has in some sense existed forever. But the evidence from the real world tells us that the premises are true statements.

Everything we know about the universe tells us that premise #1 is valid. Things do not pop into existence out of nothing; we call that magic, not science. I can already hear the skeptics snickering and saying, “that ignorant GeoChristian guy doesn’t even know about quantum theory, which allows particles to come into existence from nothing.” But I am right and the skeptics are wrong, because quantum particles do not materialize into existence from absolute nothingness Those particles emerge from a quantum vacuum, which is the lowest possible quantum energy state, but not nothing. In addition, the particles can only come into existence because there are laws that allow them to, and those laws are part of the cause. Skeptics cannot point to a single phenomenon in nature that would invalidate premise #1.

Everything we know about the universe tells us that premise #2 is valid. Many things point to the universe having come into existence at a distinct point of time in the finite past, such as the second law of thermodynamics, the finite size of the universe, and the expansion of the universe.

If the premises are valid, the conclusion is valid: something outside of the universe caused the universe to exist. That something, to a Christian or other theist, is God.

What is more likely:

1. A universe that was caused to exist by something material but eternal (or timeless) and non-thermodynamic (as in not having to obey the laws of thermodynamics),


2. A universe that was caused by something immaterial and outside of itself, that is a God who is uncaused, eternal (or timeless), and powerful?

Grace and Peace

August 29, 2013 Posted by | Apologetics, Atheism, Christianity | , | 12 Comments

Around the web 8/27/2013 — A crazy, mixed-up world

This week, my “Around the Web” wrap-up doesn’t have anything about creationism, the environment, or geology. I’ve put in a few 100-hour work weeks lately, and it is nice to finally have a little bit of time for The GeoChristian blog.

THE EXTINCTION OF CHRISTIANITY IN THE MIDDLE EAST? — In the second century, the church father Tertullian stated that “the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church.” It has often been the case in the history of Christianity that intense persecution of the church has purified and strengthened it, leading to explosive growth. This happened during the Roman persecutions of Tertullian’s day, and more recently in 20th and 21st century China. But at other times, persecution has led to the extinguishing of the the church, whether through death, apostasy, or migration. North Africa was once mostly Christianized, but the Islamic invasion of the seventh century led to the demise of the church in all but Egypt. Turkey was once a stronghold of Christianity, but in the aftermath of the breakup of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, Christians were either slaughtered (Armenians) or forced out (Greeks). The same seems to be happening today in a number of Middle Eastern countries, such as Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and to some degree in the Palestinian territories.

Christianity Today: Christians Killed in Egypt Following President’s Ouster

CNN: A post-Christian Middle East?

THE SEXUAL REVOLUTION TRUMPS ONE’S FREEDOM OF RELIGION – N.M. Supreme Court: Photographers Can’t Refuse Gay Weddings. Here’s what one of the New Mexico justices had to say:

The Huguenins are free to think, to say, to believe, as they wish; they may pray to the God of their choice and follow those commandments in their personal lives wherever they lead. The Constitution protects the Huguenins in that respect and much more. But there is a price, one that we all have to pay somewhere in our civic life.

Hmmm. So we can privately believe whatever we want, but we better not express our beliefs in any meaningful way. It seems that the freedom of religion expressed in the Bill of Rights might end up meaning little more than this statement from the constitution of a previous great power:

Citizens of [name of country] are guaranteed freedom of conscience, that is, the right to profess or not to profess any religion, and to conduct religious worship…  (click here for full text of constitution).

Would this same Christian photographer be required by law to photograph a pornographic wedding starring Miley Cyrus?

OPPOSITION TO GAY MARRIAGE: BAD. SUPPORT FOR MARRYING DOGS: GOOD. — I am not a Glenn Beck fan (a promoter of wild conspiracy theories and clueless on the environment). But I like this article that a Facebook friend pointed to: Conservative professor embarrasses liberal critic with this epic response.

At UNC Chapel Hill, there is a feminist professor who believes that women can lead happy lives without men. That’s nothing new. But what’s different is that she thinks women can form lifelong domestic partnerships with dogs and that those relationships will actually be fulfilling enough to replace marital relationships with men.

At Duke University, feminists hired a “sex worker” (read: prostitute) to speak as part of an event called the Sex Workers Art Show. After his speech, the male prostitute pulled down his pants, got down on his knees, and inserted a burning sparkler into his rectum. While it burned, he sang a verse of “the Star Spangled Banner.”

CHILD PORN AS ART — The article above gives so many good examples of really sordid stuff at North Carolina universities, that it is worth of a second entry in this week’s Around the Web:

A few years ago, a UNCW English professor posted nude pictures of under-aged girls as a part of an “art exhibit” in the university library. The Provost then ordered the nude pictures to be moved away from the library and into the university union. This decision was made after several pedophiles had previous been caught downloading child pornography in the university library just a few yards away from the location of the display. The English professor was incensed so she asked the Faculty Senate to censure the provost for violating her “academic freedom.” The faculty senate sided with the feminist professor. The provost was later pressured to leave the university.

If there are no moral absolutes, then anything is morally permissible.

DEATH TO THE _________________________ (fill in the blank) — From Fox News: Woman receives hate-filled letter asking her to move or euthanize autistic son. There are many in our country who are ethically no better than the Nazis or the Islamic extremists who want to purge their nations of Christians (and Jews and Bahais and Muslim sects and secular Muslims).


At least Montana has its academic priorities set right.

See more fascinating maps at 40 Maps That Will Help You Make Sense of the World.


Come Lord Jesus

Grace and Peace

August 27, 2013 Posted by | Around the Web | 3 Comments

Around the web — 8/18/2013 — A threat to the faith of youth, threats to the lives of Christians, atheist variations, and more

WHO’S SHAKING THE FOUNDATIONS? – What will shake the foundations of a young person’s faith more:

1. Believing that biological evolution is largely true and not contradictory to the Bible

2. or being told that biological evolution is unbiblical and a lie of the devil and then discovering that much of biological evolution is indeed true?

Old Earth Ministries has a review of Ray Comfort’s new video Evolution vs. God, which repeats a common theme of The GeoChristian:

Finally, the subtitle “shaking the foundations of faith” is tragically accurate. According to view presented in this video, to believe in any kind of Darwinian evolution is to reject the God of the Bible. As long as people believe this is true, people will reject the God of the Bible once they are exposed to the evidences supporting evolutionary theory. Thus, the video actually can “shake the foundations of faith” by inadvertently causing people to stray from the Gospel when they encounter perceived “contradictions” with science.

For a quick summary of the biblical teaching about evolution, go back to my What the Bible says directly about biological evolution. It won’t take you very long.

CERTAINTY AND CERTITUDE — On a scale of 1 to 10, how certain am I that God exists? That Jesus rose from the dead? That the Earth is billions of years old? How certain am I that atheism, Hinduism, or Mormonism are wrong? C. Michael Patton of the Parchment & Pen Blog offers some insights: Why I Lack Certainty About Christianity. Patton is not advocating some sort of wishy-washy, agnostic, we-cannot-really-know-anything philosophy. He is simply being honest in saying that our levels of certainty aren’t at the 100% level on most things, but that is OK. We can have strong convictions even if our level of certainty is less than God’s level of certainty.


NOT ALL ATHEISTS ARE  FUNDAMENTALIST DAWKINSITES – Christianity Today has a brief article on The Six Types of Atheists.

1. The Intellectual Atheist/Agnostic: Sees his/herself as intellectually too advanced for religion and seeks to engage with other likeminded individuals through writings, YouTube videos and talks.
2. The Activist: Proactively works for issues connected to naturalist or humanist causes.
3. The Seeker-Agnostic: Considers the metaphysical a possibility but is comfortable with uncertainty as it concerns the interaction of science and the metaphysical.
4. The Anti-Theist: Believes religion to be evil, thus actively works against religion and religious influences.
5. The Non-Theist: Does not have much interest in religious concepts.
6. The Ritual Atheist/Agnostic: Does not have otherworldly beliefs but regularly attends a religious ceremony, finding that this meets some social or psychological need.

Just as Christians can have varying degrees of doubt about their beliefs, I have no doubt that atheists have varying degrees of doubt about their beliefs. At least those atheists who are at least slightly open-minded (most “free-thinkers” are anything but open-minded).

ONE WAY TICKET TO MARS – More than 100,000 want to go to Mars and not return, project says. My beautiful bride won’t want to go, so I don’t want to go either.

PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS IN EGYPT — Christians in Egypt and Syria tend to side with the dictators. My understanding is that they consider it better to live under the tyranny of a dictator who lets you be a Christian than to live under the tyranny of Islamic radicals who would rather see the Christians dead or gone. See Coptic Christian churches, buildings targeted in Egypt for second straight day. Based on what happened in Turkey in the 1920s and Iraq in the 1990s and 2000s, the Islamists just might succeed in clearing the Middle East of Christians.

WOULD YOU LIKE SOME SPAM? – There have been 2,941 comments posted on The GeoChristian since its inception. My spam filter has removed an additional 97, 947 comments, most of which I have glanced at for the one-in-a-thousand that is a legitimate comment.

Grace and Peace

August 18, 2013 Posted by | Around the Web | 2 Comments

Dead Reckoning TV on the renewal of creation

One cannot have a complete biblical doctrine of creation without incorporating what one believes about the future of creation. Some Christians believe in the utter annihilation of the present world when Christ returns; that God will completely destroy Earth before establishing the eternal order. This doctrine can, unfortunately, lead to what some have called “disposable earth theology.” In the perspective of some Christians, it really doesn’t matter what happens to planet Earth because it is going to be destroyed anyway.

I believe the disposable earth teaching is biblically wrong for a number of reasons. It is more gnostic than Christian in that it teaches that only what is “spiritual” goes on to eternity, while everything physical gets wiped out. It is more biblical to say that there is a good amount of continuity between the present world and the eternal world. For example, our bodies will somehow be changed when we are resurrected, but we will still be ourselves. I will still be recognizable as Kevin Nelstead, though with some much-needed improvements. Likewise, planet Earth will still be planet Earth.

Two talented men in my local church have started producing a web tv program called Dead Reckoning TV, which I highly recommend. In episode 17 for their first year, Dr. Brian Mattson and Jay Friesen focus on the future aspect of the doctrine of creation and how that should effect our day-to-day living in the present age. For the core part of his argument, Dr. Mattson states:

When you have a robust doctrine of creation in your Christianity, when you realize that the God who made all things good is restoring this good world that’s been corrupted and destroyed by sin, it’s actually quite impossible to be so heavenly-minded you’re no earthly good. You know, our eternal hope of the new heavens and the new earth empowers—is the engine that drives—our current living. In Romans chapter 8, which is one of the greatest chapters in the Bible, when Paul talks about how our present sufferings aren’t worth being compared to the glory that is going to be revealed in us; it is in that very context, when he is talking about future glory and the liberation of creation that he talks about us presently having the resurrection spirit so that we don’t follow the old way of doing things, we follow the new way of doing things. The kingdom of God, by the Holy Spirit, is breaking into the world as it is right now, and enabling us not to be slaves of sin but to be slaves of righteousness. It’s that future day; it’s that next world that is actually empowering us in the present world.

You know, the idea of a new creation—not going to heaven, not life after death like I said a couple episodes ago, but life after life after death, the restoration of all things, the new heavens and the new earth, as the Bible puts it—it means that the present world matters. I mean, think about that, a renewed creation means that creation matters. It’s not an ejection seat, we’re not just piling into a lifeboat to bail out of this place. God still loves his world, it’s the world he made. A renewed creation means creation matters. How can we be “heavenly minded and no earthly good” if that’s true?

I encourage you to watch the entire episode: Ep. 17: Making All Things New. The Future.

August 14, 2013 Posted by | Apologetics, Christianity, Creation Care, Creation in the Bible, Environment, Ethics | , | 6 Comments

Around the web 8/11/2013 — YEC problems with poop, having the flying spaghetti monster for lunch, and more

YEC ARGUMENTS BURIED IN DEEP DOO-DOO — The Natural Historian has written a post I wish I had written: Dino Doo-Doo (Coprolites) and the Genesis Flood. Coprolites are pieces of fossilized excrement (and back when I was in graduate school, also the name of my geology department’s intramural softball team). The fossil record has an abundance of fossil turds: fecal pellets from all those invertebrates, fish poop, bird droppings, and rather large dino patties.

How would these have been deposited and preserved in the global deluge? Wouldn’t the sediment-rich slurry of the flood waters have disintegrated your average turd? How would poop piles end up in the same layers as their respective poopers?  After all, there are no dino turds in the Cambrian, and as far as we can tell, dinosaurs never stepped in dog doo-doo.

PSYCHOLOGICALLY SOUND — It is good to see a fellow Montanan writing a solid defense of Christianity: The Apologetic Professor. The author is a psychology professor at the University of Montana. But he is very wrong about one thing, so I’ll say “Go Cats!”

FEELING A BIT LIKE HEZEKIAH — The big boom in natural gas production in the United States is driven by production from shale, by the new technologies of horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing. The U.S. Energy Information Administration has produced a chart showing the past and projected future production of natural gas in the United States:


So, at least we won’t run out of natural gas in our lifetimes. That means we can go on with the status quo: drill baby drill. We can just kick back like good ol’ King Hezekiah:

Then Isaiah said to Hezekiah, “Hear the word of the Lord: Behold, the days are coming, when all that is in your house, and that which your fathers have stored up till this day, shall be carried to Babylon. Nothing shall be left, says the Lord. And some of your own sons, who shall be born to you, shall be taken away, and they shall be eunuchs in the palace of the king of Babylon.” Then Hezekiah said to Isaiah, “The word of the Lord that you have spoken is good.” For he thought, “Why not, if there will be peace and security in my days?” — 2 Kings 20:16-19 (ESV)

HT: Geology News

HAVING THE SPAGHETTI MONSTER FOR LUNCH– Some clever atheists came up with the idea of the Flying Spaghetti Monster a few years ago to try to discredit arguments for the existence of God. For example, if Christians say that a certain piece of evidence points to the existence of God, the pastafarian (a follower of the Flying Spaghetti Monster) would say that the same piece of evidence points to the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

This is, of course, utter nonsense. The arguments for the existence of something/someone who is the uncaused cause, the origin of order and design, and the giver of moral laws, are in a completely different category than the arguments for an FSM. Put quite simply, there is no evidence for the existence of an FSM, and there is evidence for the existence of God.

Greg Koukl briefly discusses the FSM on the Stand to Reason blog:

August 11, 2013 Posted by | Apologetics, Around the Web, Atheism, Energy, Environment, Young-Earth creationism | , | 1 Comment

Around the web 8/5/2013

ANOTHER REASON WHY GOING TO COLLEGE INCREASES YOUR CHANCES OF RETAINING YOUR CHRISTIAN FAITH — A couple weeks ago I reported on a study that showed that going to college, even a secular state university, actually increases one’s chances of keeping one’s Christian faith (see Staying Christian at the university). The Gospel Coalition suggested three reasons why this might be so (the presence of Christian organizations such as InterVarsity Christian Fellowship and Campus Crusade for Christ; intellectual relativism, and more Christian faculty members than in the past). I proposed a fourth reason based on my own experience: A Christian at the secular university is forced to think through challenges to his or her faith.  Dr. Jay Wile, on his Proslogion blog, suggests another reason why having a college education tends to correlate with perseverance in one’s faith:

The vast majority of intellectual and scientific data support a belief in a personal God. Thus, it is not surprising to me that the more people learn, the more likely they are to remain engaged in their faith!

Jay makes an excellent point—Students tend to keep their Christian faith because they discover that the Christian faith is indeed true!

CHRISTIANITY — ROOTED IN REAL HISTORY — C. Michael Patton writes about how Christianity is based on events that happened in history in a way that other religions, such as Islam, Mormonism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and even atheism, are not. Read about it on Parchment & Pen Blog: Christianity, the World’s Most Falsifiable Religion.

How-Christianity-Started-final How-Other-Religions-Started

A SECULARIST ARGUMENT FOR THE PRO-LIFE POSITION — From Stand to Reason Blog: No Stable Rights without Intrinsic Human Value.

How is [being pro-life] “religious” when there are millions of pro-lifers in the United States with no religion? It can’t just be because there are religious folks who agree with us; most religious people also agree that human trafficking is immoral, but we don’t call human trafficking a religious issue.


Hazzard recognizes that human value and rights are objectively real, and she can argue for them by appealing to our moral intuition (see here, for example), but not by appealing to science. Universal human rights depend on a shared human nature and intrinsic human value, which can’t be verified scientifically because the scientific method is not capable of detecting things like intrinsic value. Unfortunately, in a society infected by scientism, people have all the wiggle room they need to illegitimately dismiss a scientifically unmeasurable idea they disagree with from the public square by labeling it “religious,” since they can count on our culture interpreting that to mean “a subjective matter of preference.”

NESSIE NO LONGER SWIMS IN YEC TEXTBOOK — From The Christian Post: Christian Publisher Removes Loch Ness Monster From Biology Textbook. But according to Answers in Genesis official Mark Looy, there are still plenty of other good candidates for dinosaurs in historical records, such as the dragon in Beowulf. I’ll stick with my position that there are no dinosaurs in the Bible, and there is no evidence that dinosaurs and humans ever coexisted.

HT: InternetMonk: Saturday Ramblings.

Grace and peace

August 5, 2013 Posted by | Apologetics, Around the Web, Christianity | | 8 Comments

Staying Christian at the University

Does going to a secular college drive students away from Christian faith? According to one study, the answer is a solid “No.” See FactChecker: Does College Cause Young Adults to Lose Their Faith? on The Gospel Coalition blog.

Among recently surveyed college students, 2.7 times more report that their religious beliefs have strengthened during their college experience than say their beliefs weakened.

My own faith was greatly strengthened as I went through college and graduate school, and I know a number of people who had the same experience. The Gospel Coalition article gives three potential reasons why many students have their faith strengthened while at secular colleges and universities:

1) The increase in presence and effectiveness of campus-based ministries like Campus Crusade, InterVarsity, and Young Life.

2) The increase of relativism and the decline of strict scientism, which allows for discussion of faith and spiritual speculation, similar to what Paul experienced at the Aeropagus.

3) An increase in committed evangelical and Catholic faculty at secular universities in America who can serve as an encouragement and balance for Christian students.

I would suggest a fourth reason: Christian students at secular universities have interacted with non-Christians and their ideas, and have had to work through issues in the real world rather than in the insulated environment of a Christian university. For many Christian students, facing these challenges has strengthened their faith.

I am curious as to how Christian students who attend secular universities compare in the long run to those who attend rigidly young-Earth schools, such as those listed on Answers in Genesis’ Creation Colleges page.

Grace and Peace

HT: Cranach

P.S. One of my children graduated from a fine Christian college a year ago (Trinity Western University in Langley, British Columbia), and has a good foundation for a lifetime of faith and service. Two of my children are currently attending a state university, and are growing in their Christian faith in many ways that didn’t occur in the home or in youth group in high school. Both are active in InterVarsity Christian Fellowship.

July 14, 2013 Posted by | Christianity | 5 Comments

Around the web 7/13/2013 — No response on salt magma hypothesis, nature deficit disorder, thou shalt not criticize Ken Ham, and more

It has been a while time since my last “Around the web” post, and I have bookmarked more articles than I can reasonably make brief comments on. Here are a few…

THE DEATH OF GOOGLE READER — Since the untimely demise of Google Reader a couple weeks ago, I haven’t been keeping up on the fifty or so blogs I followed somewhat regularly. Somehow I have survived. I will have to choose a new RSS agreggator. Any suggestions for one that works somewhat like Google Reader did?

SEASONED WITH SALT — A few months ago I blogged about the latest failed young-Earth creationist attempt to explain evaporite deposits (such as halite, or rock salt): A young-Earth creationist magmatic model for the origin of evaporites. This “salt magma” hypothesis was being promoted on Tas Walker’s Biblical Geology Blog. I was hoping for some sort of response from the YECs, so I placed a comment on Walker’s blog post:


It has been almost two months, so either my critique was devastating and unanswerable, or not even worthy of a response. Or Tas might just have gotten behind on his blog responses, which I have been guilty of far too often.

NATURE DEFICIT DISORDER — Anyone who cares about the environment should be concerned about what author Richard Louv called the “nature-deficit disorder” in his 2008 book Last Child in the Woods. Al Mohler has a good summary of the book: Nature Deficit Disorder — Is Your Child at Risk? Mohler concludes with:

Last Child in the Woods is a fascinating book, though at times, Louv leans toward a form of nature mysticism. Nevertheless, Christians will read this book to great profit, remembering that the biblical worldview presents an affirmation of the goodness of creation. After all, Christians know that every atom and molecule of creation testifies of the glory of God.

This is our Father’s world, and we would do well to receive this world and enjoy it, while giving praise and glory to God for the beauty and bounty it contains. We understand that nature is not an end to itself, and we affirm that the creation exists as the theater of God’s glory for the drama of redemption. All this should help Christians to remember that we honor God most faithfully when we receive His good gifts most gratefully.

Christians should take the lead in reconnecting with nature and disconnecting from machines. Taking the kids for a long walk in the woods would be a great start.

KEN HAM AND SONLIGHT CURRICULUM — We homeschooled our children in their early elementary years, and used a lot of material from the excellent company Sonlight Curriculum. A co-founder of Sonlight had the nerve to criticize Answers in Genesis president Ken Ham for his if-you-don’t-agree-with-Ham-you-are-a-compromiser approach to Christian ministry. I guess he didn’t know that Thou Shalt Not Criticize Ken Ham.

John Holzmann of Sonlight: The conservative (evangelical/fundamentalist) Christian homeschool pope

Ken Ham: Cofounder of Sonlight Calls me “Pope Ham”

John Holzman has apologized to Ken Ham for using the phrase “Pope Ham.” I would like to see Ken Ham apologize for his divisive my-way-or-the-highway attitude that causes many of his followers to look at old-Earth Christians as compromisers at best and not Christians at all at the worst.

Even young-Earth Creationists who disagree with Ham incur his anger. See Ken Ham’s Christian Leader Criticizes Creation Museum and Jay Wile’s Upset Creationist.

CHRISTIANS SHOULD BE ENVIRONMENTALISTS — Matthew Tuininga at the Christian in America blog asks the question: Should Christians Be Environmentalists? The answer, of course, is “yes.” But you would never know it from the anti-environmental political positions taken by many Christians and the politicians they support. Tuininga writes:

If there is any area in which a rapprochement would be for the benefit of all, this is it. Eliminating the left’s grip on the environmental movement, and especially on government bureaucracies like the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), would give it more credibility among the American public, and broaden its influence. It would mitigate the statist impulse that so often informs its political campaigns by encouraging the sort of market oriented strategies that often work best. It would curb conservatives’ tendency to oppose environmental regulation in the name of free enterprise no matter how necessary that regulation in a particular case might be. In short, it would help liberals and conservatives alike to see that Christianity, care for the environment, and commitment to a free market economy need not be, and never should have been, rivals in a zero-sum game.

ZOOMING IN ON PLUTO — The New Horizons probe is still 550 million miles from Pluto, which it will fly by two years from tomorrow (on July 14, 2015), but its cameras are already aimed at the dwarf planet and its moons: NASA Spacecraft Photographs Pluto’s Largest Moon Charon. I have been excited about this mission since it was launched in 2006, back when Pluto was still a planet.

Credit: NASA/Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory

Credit: NASA/Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory

A NATIONAL PARK ON THE MOON? — There is a proposal in Congress to create a National Historical Park on the moon to commemorate and protect the six Apollo landing sites: Moon Bill Would Create National Park to Protect Apollo Landing Sites. Given the historical significance of these sites, I think this is a good idea, even though the sites are not in the sovereign territories of the United States. However, given human nature, I predict that artifacts at these sites will be disturbed and/or stolen by the end of this century.

THE RAT ON MARS – In case you missed it, this may have been a bigger cover-up than the Face on Mars. NASA has completely ignored clear evidence of mammalian life on Mars: Curiosity Rover leaving ‘Mars rat’ behind.


NOT A GOOD TIME TO BE A CHRISTIAN IN THE MIDDLE EAST — For obvious reasons, Christians in countries such as Egypt and Syria tend to be wary of “Islamist” governments. The Islamist response tends to be rather harsh: Egypt’s Christians face backlash for Morsi ouster.

Grace and Peace

July 13, 2013 Posted by | Around the Web, Christianity, Creation Care, Environment, Young-Earth creationism | , , , , , , | 8 Comments

Life beyond the granite tombstone

DSCN5968You may have been wondering, but I am still alive. I just haven’t been blogging for awhile. More important things have been taking up my time, such as my son’s wedding last week in British Columbia.

Some day, however, I will be dead. I’ll be under a tombstone, providing nutrients for worms and soil bacteria. But as a Christian, I believe that my death will not be the end of my existence.

The Christian hope is for physical resurrection in a real body in a real physical realm—the New Earth. Just as Christ rose from the dead in glory with a real body—he ate real food and invited Thomas to touch his wounds—so also will we be given a new body that will be freed from the corruption that characterizes our current existence.

The biblical picture of the resurrection is not one of disembodied spirits floating in the clouds playing harps. This ethereal existence is what many people picture as “eternal life,” but it is not found in the Bible. The Bible does not portray us going up to “heaven” as much as it paints a picture of heaven coming down to Earth. At that point, God’s people will experience the oft-repeated Old Testament promise that “I will walk among you and will be your God, and you shall be my people” (Lev 26:12 ESV). I look forward to that day with joyful anticipation.


Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. — John 11:25-26 ESV

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” — Revelation 21:1-5 ESV

Grace and Peace

July 13, 2013 Posted by | Christianity | , | 2 Comments

Arks a-plenty

The Noah’s Ark theme park being built by Answers in Genesis gets lots of publicity, but it is only one of a number of Noah’s Ark projects in progress around the world. Christianity Today reports on eight such projects: A Flood of Arks.


If you were to build a Noah’s Ark attraction, what would you include?

I think I would try to build mine out of “gopher barky barky.”

Grace and Peace

June 26, 2013 Posted by | Archeology, Christianity, Young-Earth creationism | , , , | 10 Comments

Stuck in a tar pit

The June 2013  issue of Acts & Facts magazine from the Institute for Creation Research has a two-page article on the fossils of the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles. “The La Brea Tar Pits Mystery” was written by Dr. John Morris, president of ICR, and Dr. Timothy Clarey, ICR’s new staff geologist.

The article correctly states that some paleontologists have moved away from the simple “animals got stuck in the tar when they stopped for a drink of water” interpretation of the La Brea tar pits. It appears that at least some of the fossils were washed downstream from the nearby Santa Monica Mountains and became trapped in the tar. Morris and Clarey make an unjustified extrapolation from this, and claim that all of the fossils must have been transported to the La Brea site from elsewhere.

Morris and Clarey believe that the La Brea Tar Pits and their enclosing sediments were formed after Noah’s flood. In their flood geology model, Noah’s flood deposited the bulk of Earth’s rock record, but most deposits that geologists would consider to be of Quaternary age (i.e. the Ice Ages) were deposited in a period of a few hundred years after Noah’s flood. This is sometimes referred to as “residual catastrophism.” Morris and Clarey describe the formation of the La Brea fossil deposits as follows:

Large flooding events (sometime after the Great Flood) could have swept the animals into the tar pit openings and deposited the bones in tight, jumbled masses. Biblical scientists have reinterpreted the fossil deposits as a consequence of closely spaced, catastrophic flood events that likely occurred in the waning of the post-Flood Ice Age. The immediate post-Flood years were likely chaotic and more geologically active than today as the earth’s surface recovered from the catastrophic activity of the Flood.

There are a number of problems with the residual catastrophism model as it relates to La Brea. Here are just a few:

  • Soil formation — Soils do not form overnight, and plants need soil. The La Brea flora comes from mature forest ecosystems, and the large herbivores were dependent on abundant vegetation. In the YEC residual catastrophism scenario, soil would have had to form very rapidly, but this process would have been impeded either by high rates of erosion or high rates of deposition.
  • Ecological succession — This is related to the problem of soil formation. Ecological succession is the process of development of an ecosystem over time. If one started with bare rock or sediment after the flood, there would have had to have been a succession of communities that inhabited the area over time, starting with pioneer species that could live on the barren surface, such as lichens, mosses, and insects. Over time there might have been communities dominated by grasses, brush, and eventually a variety of forest types. In the YEC scenario, this would have had to occur very quickly, leading up to mature flora capable of supporting the animal community. Post-flood residual catastrophism suffers from the same problem as the rest of YEC geology: too many events, too little time.
  • Migration — The mammal and bird fossils of La Brea would have had to migrate from Ararat (in modern-day Turkey) and become well-established in the Los Angeles area in a very short time. This is part of the broader biogeographical problem of YEC — kangaroos all migrated to Australia (exactly where kangaroo fossils were deposited by the flood) and didn’t leave any stragglers behind, African animals all migrated to Africa, western North American animals (again, as evidenced in the fossil record) all knew to migrate to western North America, and so forth.
  • Sedimentation — All of this migration and fossilization happened while residual catastrophism was occurring, which in many places meant the deposition of many hundreds of meters of sediments!

In the second-to-last paragraph, the YEC explanation for the La Brea fossils goes from bad to worse:

Uplift of the nearby Santa Monica Mountains and associated earthquakes could have instantly changed river directions and the levels of the land surface, setting local floods in motion. Rapid melting of the glaciers at the end of the Ice Age could have also contributed catastrophic outpourings of floodwaters from the mountains, depositing animal remains in the process. Close-spaced catastrophic events likely continued until Earth reached the relatively stable balance we now experience.

I was quite surprised to see the authors propose that melting of glaciers could have contributed to the formation of the sediments of La Brea. The sediments of these deposits were clearly derived from the nearby Santa Monica Mountains, which in that area presently do not exceed 1500 feet (460 m) in elevation. There is absolutely zero evidence that the Santa Monica Mountains were ever glaciated. A few small glaciers may have existed above 10,000 feet (3050 m) in the San Gabriel and San Bernardino Mountains during the Pleistocene, but it needs to be emphasized that these were small glaciers, and that the sediments of La Brea did not come from these ranges.

The authors conclude with a typical YEC overstatement:

The better explanation for the fossils in the La Brea tar pits matches perfectly with the biblical perspective of recent creation.

The authors have certainly not demonstrated that their residual catastrophism model can explain the La Brea fossil assemblages or their enclosing sediments. Like much of what is presented by the YECs, it is not necessary biblically, nor valid scientifically.

Grace and Peace



In 2012, I reviewed a previous Acts & Facts article by Morris: Young-Earth creationism and the intensity of volcanism. Morris tried to show that the intensity of volcanism has been decreasing ever since the flood, but he did so through choosing eruptions that matched his premise, and then ignoring many thousands of other eruptions.

Also in 2012, I got involved in a discussion about the La Brea Tar Pits with young-Earth creationist Jay Wile on his Proslogion blog. Dr. Wile was advocating for the La Brea Tar Pits being formed during Noah’s flood rather than after the deluge, while I gave a number of reasons why neither the flood explanation nor the post-flood explanation worked. See A Large, Detailed Study Confirms Another Failed Evolutionary Prediction.

June 3, 2013 Posted by | Age of the Earth, Apologetics, Christianity, Geology, Origins, Young-Earth creationism | , , | 12 Comments


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